Dirty-Lex, O' Brother, Where Art Thou?

CryptKickR

CryptKickR

Registered User
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
338
Okay, so you told me that once a person understands basic flight dynamics, then flying in-game just comes naturally. Well, I don't have the money or the time to hit up the local crashpad. But I have spent the last two weeks reading, watching videos, etc. And I've gotten a pretty good grasp on the theory. Weight, lift, thrust, drag, etc.

I've focused mainly on choppers since any chimp with a BF 2 key can fly a jet. And so I've learned all about pitch, yaw, and even the completely misunderstood angle of attack ( for any non-pilots like myself, the angle of attack has nothing whatsoever to do with a gun! )

I've been loading up local servers for practice on BF 2 and 2142. I've gotten alright with translating the cyclic to my mouse and anti-torque pedals to the A & D keys. However, I'm still trying to find some finesse with the W & S keys forming some sort of hybrid Collective/Throttle mutation. I can get around just find, especially when I use the Kubric Dam map as sort of an obstacle course ( love flying through the tunnel at full speed! )

And in BF 2 I can "sort of" use autorotation to hit the heli-pad when I come in for repairs or ammo, but I still need a lot of work to stop slamming myself right at touchdown. Forget it in 2142... I've beat the living hell out of the Titan and have yet to be able to land in the Titan and fly away again. If I don't crash while re-entering the Titan, then I most certainly never survive on my way out of it. Also in 2142, I'm sort of 50/50 for actually landing on a helipad in-tact. Obviously, if I can l stick the landing, I fly away with no problem at all.

Maneuvers and tactics are even worse for me... I've been trying to practice circling a target while in forward motion, e.g., circling it while the gunner chews it up. But I just can't seem to keep a tight circle. If I just yaw left while in motion, I find myself somewhere on the far side of the map. If I try to bank left while in motion, I often end up in a full roll, which has varied results depending on altitude, terrain, etc. ( Though, I have gotten fairly decent at using roll to evade when being shot at by another chopper. I roll and I end up dropping out of their sight due to a combination of leaving their sight line and quickly losing altitude. The downside is that I can't seem to fight back once I get turned around and find the other guy... They usually just pull some maneuver of their own that ends with them disappearing and suddenly re-spawning on my tail rotor! )

So, I've been having one hell of a go at it by myself... I wanted to at least have a clue before I humbled myself and begged for your tutelage. Well, fuck it, I give up on trying to get a clue first. I'll just beg and get it over with! :P

So, whatcha say...?
 
When you sort it all out, Crypt, you can share it with me. I have been flying sims since 1982 and just don't have the nack for 2142 flying. I was always a joystick pilot and many of the best seem to be mouse and keyboard pilots. I will just have to stick to gunning to be satisfied.
 
I say thou needs more practice. If you want, I can show you some more basic stuff at some point. Even now if you want.
Particulary, landing and taking off from the titan.
 
Well, yet another Scooby Doo mystery... I'm following this guy around and wishing like hell he would just sit still so I could plug his ass with about a dozen missiles and be on my way. However, he figures out he's being shot at and does this illiterate nose climb toward heaven. Well, me thinks this is very good because I know the gunship has a limited ceiling it can fly at, so I just pulled back and waited for this genius to realize this. Easy kill in 3... 2... WTF?!?! This guy is coming head on at me, missiles blazing, gunner blazing,. next thing ya know I'm staring at the spawn map trying to figure out how in THE hell this guy was faced one direction and turned so damn fast to come back and kill me.

I don't think it was cheating or sploiting, actually I think it was damn fine flying skills. That little gem is now on my skill wish list. Unfortunately, in game is bad place to ask someone how they just did something. So, maybe someone can offer a suggestion or two on how to do this little maneuver?
 
Vengeance0058 said:
I say thou needs more practice.
Click to expand...
This from the guy who ejected from the pilot's seat three times in one round? LMAO! That was a really great round we had!

Yup, I'll take the help anywhere I can get it. Still got about two weeks before the spring semester begins, so hopefully we'll get together a few times for some crashing, er, I mean flying!
 
Dude I just wrote like 4 pages worth of awesome material for you and firefox crashed :'( Epic fucking fail.

If you hopp on vent I will have a one and one sit down and table talk you through some of the very important points I mentioned, in my lost post.
 
foxdeath.png
 
To sum it all up,

1. I am extremely impressed that you went ahead and did some research, that will do you a great deal of good.

2. BF series flying is tricky and difficult to teach. the bottom line is that it all of the factors of flight that you learned about follow a different logic in BF, but rather in other simulation games they follow true to the conception and fundamental aerodynamic attributes.

3. In order to effectively learn how to fly successfully there are 3 main factors (excluding airframe specifics) That you must know. 1 of which comes naturally and links our subconscious with our conscious. The three are: Art, Sciecne, and Situational awareness otherwise known as SA.


Science is the technical aspect of flying, and within it contains all of the Airframe specific Aerodynamic principles, limits, Flight mechanics and technical knowledge that a pilot MUST know to a certain degree in order to fly successfully and perform certain maneuevrs with a 95% success outcome in accordance linear scientific law. in other words, IF A + B = C, and A is within C but does not exceed D I can perform my barrel roll without crashing into the ground. But When A exceeds B, and B is less than C - A than I will crash into the ground and Die. This makes up about 30-35% of flying, and is attributed with instruments, conceptual knowledge of how pitch, roll, yaw and airspeed are going to affect my aircraft and am I in the correct limits to perform a maneauver.

Ex: For a SAFE counterclockwise successful barrel role in cobra the following must occur:

Limits: (the math formula I explained above)
Alt: 50+ At: 0->30* Yaw +3L -3L Speed 250kts+ Rate of decent +10 Ft/m.

Control Imputs: In order

(nose down 15* for 1-1.5 seconds, increase collective, full right pedal, clyclic hard right, 3.5 O'clock postion for 1.5-2 seconds, maintain 100% torque, slight left pedal, lower collective, stabilize horrizon by adding cyclic full left @ 9 O'clock postion until roll dissapates. stabilize collective to maintain airspeed + altitude, neutralize horizon, adjust pedals as needed, forward cyclic, resume regular flight.) Voila barrel roll.

The next Factor is Art, which makes up about 70% of flying. Art is made up of experience, know how, finness and control touch. Art is the pilot's application of personal technique built off of a pool experience from flying. Art is the easiest to progress in technique but the hardest to perfect.

The art of flying also contains something called situational awareness, which incorporates another 3 subcategories: Foresight/anticipation (predictive assessments) Internal data processing and spatial awareness.


1.Foresight/anticipation (predictive assessments): You make a mental map of where another object in motion exists in relation to you and your aircraft which is also in motion. This is the lifeblood of winning a dog fight, if you are able to predict the enemy, where he is, know how he fly's and when when the opportune time to attack is will keep you alive. Additionally you can predict the outcome of an engagement, or the enemies maneuvering capabilities in reaction to you entering their visual frame of reference based upon the posture and position of their aircraft in relation to yours. Your brain processes this information in the blink of an eye. It can be taught, and is acquired for practice very quickly once we make the synaptic connection and associate it with what we receive through our eyes. We as humans almost do this automatically, as it is instinctual, however you can be trained on what to look for and not be a fleeting deer in the wood-line at the first sign of a jaguar and vice versa and make the kill to an un suspecting enemy. In simple terms, You can adjust your attack posture, based upon where you assess the enemy to be, and maneuver to gain the advantage in dog fight. Also you can determine the status of an enemy from a distance based of how they apear in your visual frame a refrence. For example, flying away while descending at a very low airspeed, means most likely he did not see you. While on the flip side if you pass over him head on, and he turns first, and a sharp bank, he saw you and is trying to get position on you.

2. Internal data processing. this ties into science a little more than art, it is pretty much the ability for us to multitask while flying, and be able to interpret data from our instruments, and interpret the data that can somtimes fool our eyes, optical illusions, this is usually reserved for more advanced flying, auto-rotations, and glide slopes for power failures the like. this is also valuable for how audible differences translate into how the aircraft is performing.

3. Spatial awareness or "Hey think I can fit through that??". Spatial awareness is the ability for you to understand and measure the demensions of your aircraft, what it can fly threw over under and around, and is used as a measurement for objects in the distance and how far away they are and how big they are. ** Vital for NOE flying.


You can become a good pilot in BF by just using art, but you abilities will be capped out very quickly. Once you are able to apply the science of flying in confession with your art, then you will reach a new tier.





anyways, here are some landing videos to demonstrate the difference between science of flying and art of flying.


SCIENCE:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allownetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm44%2Fmhspv06%2FLanding.mp4" width="600" height="361"><embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm44%2Fmhspv06%2FLanding.mp4">


This is a demonstration of the basic fundamentals

ART:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allownetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm44%2Fmhspv06%2FLandingArt.mp4" width="600" height="361"><embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm44%2Fmhspv06%2FLandingArt.mp4">

This is a demonstration of the practical application mixed with some experience.




I will on more later Bro, my brain needs to sleep :P
 
Great write up Lex - thx! This is something I am really interested in too now. I have a pitiful 8 kills in 3 hours of flying. Only 1 legit - the other 7 kills by accident.

If more members are interested - maybe we could get a closed training server for a few weeks with all the bf2 airmaps. That will be the best way to get in shape without spending 400/500h by yourself.

p.s.: The video's do not work.
 
OH NOES!!1! I hopped on Vent just after posting the death of Firefox. Must have just missed ya. Loving the write up. I wondered if I was approaching this all wrong by trying to apply real-world concepts to a digitized world. Glad to see that many principles still apply, even to to games.

I'm trying to get as much experience as I can by loading up local servers on my computer and playing because most of the time there's either a long line in 2142 or there's just people shooting, stabbing, C-4 to hell, etc. in BF 2. Either way, I don't get much experience in live servers. So, my art is going to take some time.

I appreciate all the time you put in to this and I can't wait to do some stuff on the server. The videos are not working for me, but I can view them later. Thanks for the help, bro!
 
mega02 said:
If more members are interested - maybe we could get a closed training server for a few weeks with all the bf2 airmaps. That will be the best way to get in shape without spending 400/500h by yourself.
Click to expand...
And maybe some of us non-members could join ya. :P It would be awesome to get some training time in without repeatedly getting killed by people who want to fly more than I do...
 
CryptKickR said:
And maybe some of us non-members could join ya. :P It would be awesome to get some training time in without repeatedly getting killed by people who want to fly more than I do...
Click to expand...


My bad :) Yes plus we can invite some regulars too if they show interest.

Trying to get some flying time I went to 5 different servers yesterday. Looked for 0 or 1 player in. That 1 player managed to arty, C4, essex, etc me until I just gave up.

Loading up local servers helps - but you do not get better unless you are willing to put a lot of time into it. Plus playing together in a controlled environment without asshatery - would actually be fun.

So if anyone else wants this please speak up!
 
Well, I just got some time in with GT on an empty server. Mad props to him for all his patience... I crashed more gunships in a two hour period than I have in my entire 2142 career. But I learned some very sweeeeet stuff!

Now, I'm headed to Top Gun!!1! So, someone tell the bad guys to look the fuck out!
 
I would love some help with solo-gunning.
And doing the backwards flying thing.

I found something odd in BF2142. I had the 1.51 Beta installed at some point, but after uninstalling and putting 1.50 back in the maps still remain and work. Oddly, Karkand is missing all the buildings. But Molokai is a great Gunship pratice map, many obstacles in the island, but the sea area is really big and open.
 
Hehe, Practicing in an empty tampa server is good too, cause there's 3 Gunships per map
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top