Fight the system - ACTA

[Soulzz]

Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The RIAA and MPAA at it's best. If this passes, border patrol officers can arrest you on the spot. They are trying to put this in place for police officers as well. Thanks, Hollywood!

Legal scope
Nate Anderson with Ars Technica pointed out that ACTA encourages service providers to collect and provide information about suspected infringers by giving them "safe harbor from certain legal threats". Similarly, it provides for criminalization of copyright infringement, granting law enforcement the powers to perform criminal investigation, arrests and pursue criminal citations or prosecution of suspects who may have infringed on copyright. It also allows criminal investigations and invasive searches to be performed against individuals for whom there is no probable cause, and in that regard weakens the presumption of innocence and allows what would in the past have been considered unlawful searches.
Since ACTA is an international treaty, it is an example of policy laundering used to establish and implement legal changes. Policy laundering allows legal provisions to be pushed through via closed negotiations among private members of the executive bodies of the signatories. This method avoids use of public legislation and its judiciary oversight. Once ratified, companies belonging to non-members may be forced to follow the ACTA requirements since they will otherwise fall out of the safe harbor protections. Also, the use of trade incentives and the like to persuade other nations to adopt treaties is a standard approach in international relationships. Additional signatories would have to accept ACTA's terms without much scope for negotiation.

 

[CryptKickR]

No amount of protest or verbal sparring is going to halt this action any more than some of the finest legal minds in the U.S. could halt Gen. Hayden's use of illegal wiretapping and other questionable means while he was still the director over at No Such Agency.

The fairly dirty dollar now ranks higher and mightier than the purest moral principle or the most Socratic law of logic. And, unfortunately, the major governments of the world are too busy congealing in to a perverted version of the Japanese business Keiretsu to care, which means the best interests of the corporation will always trump the best interests of the masses.

Men at some time are masters of their fates:
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.

 

[Dirty-Lex]

No amount of protest or verbal sparring is going to halt this action any more than some of the finest legal minds in the U.S. could halt Gen. Hayden's use of illegal wiretapping and other questionable means while he was still the director over at No Such Agency.

The fairly dirty dollar now ranks higher and mightier than the purest moral principle or the most Socratic law of logic. And, unfortunately, the major governments of the world are too busy congealing in to a perverted version of the Japanese business Keiretsu to care, which means the best interests of the corporation will always trump the best interests of the masses.

Men at some time are masters of their fates:
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.

Comon Crypt, did you eat your copy of the community manifesto for breakfast this morning??

This is not an irrational piece of legislation. It covers a fairly legitimate concern in the foreign market, specifically applicable (In my opinion) to US based exports and prevention of protected high dollar items that we have on the foriegn market. The Chinese and Japanese have a very unsightly habbitt of counterfitting our products, especially in the multimedia industry, however I will admit I am not 100% educated on this issue. From my point of view It seems to be aimed at granting an addtional extended power to law enforcement to interdict counter fitting at the street level, where a lot of counterfeit and illegally distributed merchandise is sold. that's just the level that I am looking at.

and as far as the "Illegal wire tapping" goes: I would assume that federal agents have better things to do that listen to Sixer call those midnight sex lines you see in between infomercials about P90x and Shamwow @ 4:30 in the morning.

In all seriousness about that, I would like to believe that the feds had a target list of folks that they wanted to keep tabs on labeled as "Terrorist Suspects" but also wanted to include every fucking degenerate mobster, gangbanger, and fuckwad with a criminal record, but were bound by the legal system, so they labeled it as an interests of "National Security" but then again, who really knows...Do you have an super duper security clearance? cause I sure don't lol.


The EU had a similar issue like this in the "Casis De Dijon" case and The "California Champagne" issue. Casis De Dijon is not really the same kind of issue in regards to whats going on here, but the type of international economic policies that it spawned I think could be applicable in this situation, where as a tangible level of law enforcement is incorporated. France also took a stab the the US, a while back, when they claimed that the Champagne that was being made in California was counterfit because it was not grown and bottled in Champagne France. These kind of issues come up all the time, dude I would pay this one no mind, as it will not be applicable to you and I at any real visible level unless you are the president of Viacom, or some other blue chip corp. (in the case that you were, or you know someone who is you should encourage them drop a very healthy donation in our donation in-box lol




@Soulzz, if you think that Police officers and border patrol agents will be given "fire at will" arrest power you are fucking retarded. We have a constitution here in America, and a supreme court that identifies and votes on what laws are constitutional and which ones are not. If you think that they are just going to throw our civil liberties into the wind and say "fuck it, arrest them if they look like a bad guy" I would highly beg to differ. We as a Nation can't seem to find the most expedient way of booting out illegal aliens who come here ILEGALLY, Please do not succumb to the rectal hypoxia that has claimed CNN and msnbc bro.

 

[Soulzz]

Comon Crypt, did you eat your copy of the community manifesto for breakfast this morning??

This is not an irrational piece of legislation. It covers a fairly legitimate concern in the foreign market, specifically applicable (In my opinion) to US based exports and prevention of protected high dollar items that we have on the foriegn market. The Chinese and Japanese have a very unsightly habbitt of counterfitting our products, especially in the multimedia industry, however I will admit I am not 100% educated on this issue. From my point of view It seems to be aimed at granting an addtional extended power to law enforcement to interdict counter fitting at the street level, where a lot of counterfeit and illegally distributed merchandise is sold. that's just the level that I am looking at.

and as far as the "Illegal wire tapping" goes: I would assume that federal agents have better things to do that listen to Sixer call those midnight sex lines you see in between infomercials about P90x and Shamwow @ 4:30 in the morning.

In all seriousness about that, I would like to believe that the feds had a target list of folks that they wanted to keep tabs on labeled as "Terrorist Suspects" but also wanted to include every fucking degenerate mobster, gangbanger, and fuckwad with a criminal record, but were bound by the legal system, so they labeled it as an interests of "National Security" but then again, who really knows...Do you have an super duper security clearance? cause I sure don't lol.


The EU had a similar issue like this in the "Casis De Dijon" case and The "California Champagne" issue. Casis De Dijon is not really the same kind of issue in regards to whats going on here, but the type of international economic policies that it spawned I think could be applicable in this situation, where as a tangible level of law enforcement is incorporated. France also took a stab the the US, a while back, when they claimed that the Champagne that was being made in California was counterfit because it was not grown and bottled in Champagne France. These kind of issues come up all the time, dude I would pay this one no mind, as it will not be applicable to you and I at any real visible level unless you are the president of Viacom, or some other blue chip corp. (in the case that you were, or you know someone who is you should encourage them drop a very healthy donation in our donation in-box lol




@Soulzz, if you think that Police officers and border patrol agents will be given "fire at will" arrest power you are fucking retarded. We have a constitution here in America, and a supreme court that identifies and votes on what laws are constitutional and which ones are not. If you think that they are just going to throw our civil liberties into the wind and say "fuck it, arrest them if they look like a bad guy" I would highly beg to differ. We as a Nation can't seem to find the most expedient way of booting out illegal aliens who come here ILEGALLY, Please do not succumb to the rectal hypoxia that has claimed CNN and msnbc bro.

Yea, and that same constitution is constantly under fire every decade. Similar things have come from these two media giants (RIAA and MPAA).

 

[CryptKickR]

Comon Crypt, did you eat your copy of the community manifesto for breakfast this morning??

He-He! Marx, I am not. Just call it like I see it. The corporations have pretty much been taking over ever since the supreme court decided that a corporation could also be a private citizen, especially in the area of campaign finance donations. I'm just saying...

Ok, grab a beer or a coffee or whatever. First off, we're not 5 x 5 on this. You opened this can of worms, so now let me explain it a little better.

In all seriousness about that, I would like to believe that the feds had a target list of folks that they wanted to keep tabs on labeled as "Terrorist Suspects" but also wanted to include every fucking degenerate mobster, gangbanger, and fuckwad with a criminal record, but were bound by the legal system, so they labeled it as an interests of "National Security" but then again, who really knows...Do you have an super duper security clearance? cause I sure don't lol.

Now, here, I would like to believe that as well. And I'd like to see it happen with as few restrictions to LEO's as possible. Let them do their job. Things is, it wasn't LEO's ( fed or local ) that secured the location, handled the insertion of the equipment, isolated the gathering of the data, collated the data, or even the ones who eventually pipe-lined it to Quantico. The office of the U.S. Attorney General preemptively issued a general amnesty to three telecom companies for their cooperation in this matter. That's where government involvement ended until the data that was harvested was eventually handed over. Who the hell knows exactly what happened in the interim?

And that right there is my problem... There are many sensitive things handled everyday by many people with only a minimum security rating. And they usually do a fine job doing whatever it is they were contracted for. But to contract out certain work simply because it is more politically expedient to do so has always been bullshit to me. Especially when that work SHOULD HAVE been handled by LEO's or better, not civ-cons.

Now, you can think I'm being a hard ass if you want. But I'm telling ya, wee little things such as the damn near 4,000 contracts that have been awarded by DHS alone for the specific purposes of intel gathering and counter-tango logistics are going to come back and bite us in the ass one day. Since 9-11 the GAO has become a big damn buffet for everyone out there, from Eric Prince to the artist formerly known as Prince. And it's all bullshit. Intel should be handled by the IC, C-T should be run by JSOC, Feds, and LEO's, and civ-cons should be restricted to color coding wiring harnesses at Raytheon or General Dynamics or whatever the hell. You know what I mean.

And that's my beef, bro. Nothing special, I just don't like where corporate greed has taken us or what it's bought us. We can't avoid a big intrusive government anymore simply because we keep selling off parts of the damn thing. If ya ever wonder why there's no money for Arizona or any other of a half dozen other problem areas of ours, it's because it's going to some contract, somewhere, that should never have been signed.

Granted, this is just my opinion, and I could be wrong. But, alas, I'm not. As I type this, our fearless leader is in the white house, surrounded by the best of his Wall Street buddies that helped him get there, and they are selling off everything but the furniture. ( The furniture will probably go the day before they leave... )

I love my country and I try like hell not to question or judge the means that protect and ensure all the freedoms we have in this great nation of ours. But corporate America keeps burrowing it's way further and further in to my government and that scares me, because when all the furniture is gone, liberties will be the only thing they have left to sell...

( Please keep in mind, all my angst about private contracts is aimed stateside. I have never been to any of the other places where many of the contractors function, so I can't hold any judgment about anything that happens elsewhere. )

 

[cplmac]

While I agree with you that Citizens United was a travesty, it was just the latest not the first battle corporations have won against the citizenry. And the "wire tapping" that Hayden did was nothing, almost all of it was international communications. Domestic stuff is still monitored the way it has been for the past twenty years, completely and mostly automated. The problem I have with this legislation is along the lines of what Soulz pointed out, it's more regulation through international treaty which is something beyond the purvue of our elected representatives once the Senate approves it. I will never support our laws being dictated by an international mandate. It's very unlikely that the border patrol would be bothered with making arrests for your illegally downloaded Celine Dion collection, and almost as unlikely that your local LEO's would be bothered with it. Still, laws are like taxes, they operate on a ratchet. They always get tighter, never looser.

 

[CryptKickR]

Frack! Lex through a pass out of bounds and my goofy ass just chased after it like Marmaduke, dragging things right off topic. My apologies.

Back on topic, I think this is just another toe in the water, get the temperature, sort of action. The DCMA created many possible doors for digital sniffing, many of which we have not even come close to imagining yet, much less seeing. And even though this ACT Agreement might be a whole different pony today, you can believe that somewhere down the line there will eventually be a whole stable of these digital beauty's that will eventually cross every invisible border that data itself can cross.

And you can best believe that the same corporate dollars that brought the Olympic games to China, Verizon to Afghanistan, and Nike to Ethiopia are going to eventually help "persuade" our leaders to tell us how much we need some international controls to protect Democracy (the word, not the concept.) Just a few little things that will help us to protect our little Johnny or our little Susie from the digital boogie man. And what responsible parent doesn't want to protect their children? Hell yes, it's just one little law, right? It's not like we're handing over our sovereignty to some international control, right?

Still, laws are like taxes, they operate on a ratchet. They always get tighter, never looser.

Very true. And the only thing that is more frightening to me than legal evolution in regard to the digital age is the power of the corporate dollars that have brought us the digital age. I'm not worried about how ICE or the Mounties might handle my MP3 collection. I'm thinking ahead a few years, I'm more worried about the future of that proverbial ratchet...

 

[cplmac]

Seat belt laws are a perfect example of the ratchet effect. When they passed mandatory seat belt laws in IL a couple decades ago amid a shitstorm of public opposition, our legislators PROMISED that the law would only allow officers to ticket someone for not wearing their seatbelt if they were pulled over for another violation, in other words it would be a secondary offense. That lasted almost five years before they felt the people were sufficiently heated up in the "frog in the pot of water", so they made it a primary offense. Now there are MANY communities in the Chicago area that literally have seatbelt checkpoints where officers walk between cars at intersections and direct those not wearing seatbelts to a nearby parking area where a group of officers write them out citations. Citations which are now MOVING violations if you have a CDL in IL. So not only do you get a fine, you have to retake all of the tests when you renew your license. On a CDL that is a lot of tests. This problem is compounded by the fact that the federal government pays local police to issue seatbelt citations. This is the ratchet effect in perfect form.

 

[shockwave]

Soulzz, I just wanted to say thanks my head hurts now from having to read this fricken 24 page document just to understand what your post was about....lol

I understand your concerns and to some degree I share them but being that I someone that doesn't pirate software, music, movies or anything else for that matter, I also understand where they are coming from as well, I just don't agree with them.

I read all 24 pages of the ACTA some of them twice and even know I don't pirate or bootleg, I don't much care for the verbiage or they way that they are trying to implement this BS.

Some folks would say oh your overacting to this but I think we see the same writing on the wall and I don't like what I am reading. I am fed up with having to give up our liberties and freedoms to protect us from terrorism but like most law abiding citizens I put up with it because we have to but I'll be god damn if I am giving up those same liberties & freedoms to protect the coffers of big corporations.