Just an honest discussion

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thereasonableman

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I understand that admins are trying to provide a healthy gaming environment on their severs.

And this is an honest question: why the J*w word is considered a racial slur on the clan's servers, when in reality it is not, or debatable at least?

Look at the racial slurs database. Look at discussions on israel times website. Or look at the so many different blog posts on the internet. At the very least you should get the feeling that this word is not automatically a racial slur.

Admins, this is a truly honest question. Please do not just disregard it, or simply ban me from the site without offering a fair and an open-minded discussion.

I am open minded, myself, and I accept criticism.

Thanks.
 
I can give you over 100 examples of why the word "jew" is not allowed. They are all happened to be players on the banlist.

No not automatically considered a slur. If you use it in a non malicious way, we will lift the ban and ask you to play the game and not talk about jews or jewish people, culture etc. Our servers isnt the place for it.

This is the only reply I will make here. Wont bother opening this thread again either so dont waste your time replying.
 
I understand that you meant it all depends on the context.

I also agree that some people SUCK. That, unfortunately, is a reality.

I agree with that.

About the "it all depends on the context" thing:
So, some player gets mad at another player and says "fucking J*w" is the not same as someone says "the J*ws have a book and it is called the Torah". Right?
In the first example it is used as a derogatory term, and in the latter it is used to name a group of people in a non-offensive manner.

So far...so good? We are on the same page?
 
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I believe the point that you have missed is. The filter will not be changed.

If you want to talk about things outside the game keep it outside the game.

One of our rules is to not have politically charged conversations and part of that is talking about real world events, Racially charged events, etc.
 
Thanks you for the reply

I agree again. I totally agree with SEQea.

I am not advocating for getting rid of the filters. And I am not saying that the servers are a good place to have discussions about politics, religion, or other topics.

But, all I am saying is that the application of rules here is a bit too brutal. You assume that certain remarks containing certain words are automatically racist, even when the word being used is not considered as such by the very people who are targeted by it.

I used the word "J*w" as an example here, because there are so many nuances that need to be considered before a statement is considered racist. It is even more complicated than the N-word.

The J-word is an identity. It is not a racial slur. It is the same as The words Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, and million other word.

And yes, it was used as a racial slur. But that was hundreds of years after the word was created. Meaning, the word is originally an identity word, but then its use as racial slur was hijacked by racists.

That is different from the N-word, which was used since the day it was created as a racial slur. Africans and African Americans never used the N-word to identify themselves before slavery in the Americas.

That is why the J-word is a bit more complicated than the N-word.

Even jewish people would tell you that it all depends on the context. They will even go a step further and tell you that saying "J*w" (singular) is not the same as saying "J*ws" (plural).

That is, to use the word to states a fact about jewish people is not racist. Because it is used in its original intended meaning; an identity word (depends on the fact being stated of course). But using it as a verb in "j*w down" or as a noun in "Do not be such a j*w" is pejorative.

So, it all depends on the context for some words. Consequently, banning players for using this word in its intended meaning is a bit unfair.
 
I’ll chime in here, because I’m qualified. Of course the word “Jew” is not in of itself a slur. But in our servers, there are 2 rules that make this word problematic. The first being racial slurs and the second is no politics. I can’t find many situations where the word wouldn’t be used in either of those contexts. That’s why it’s in the filter. And to say that the word is an identity and not a slur is just ignorant. If it’s used as a slur, it’s a slur.
 
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Yes, this is an open discussion for responsible adults. Anyone can chime in.

I totally do not agree with you. It is an identity word that is used as a slur. Saying that this word is only a slur as you said above, means being a jew is automatically a bad thing. Which is not true.

This word is just a word that can be used in many contexts. It can be used to talk about religion, history, fashion, cuisine, culture, art, science. Again, It is an identity and many things can be associated with an identity. I am shocked that you can not see it being used in other than the two contexts you mentioned above.

Here are questions for you:
1. Why practicing jews wear black outfits.
2. Why many followers of many religions (including jews) wear special hats?

These are two questions whose answers may have the word "jew" in them but neither of them is about politics nor about racism.

Would you please watch the first few seconds of this clip:

You can see the interviewer addressed the Rabbi he was talking to as "You are a practicing jew", and the Rabbi was not offended. It is an identity word BEFORE it is a racial slur.

And about the no-politics rule. It was never listed as a rule on the servers. Much like police can not give you a ticket for ignoring a red light at intersection that does not have a traffic light to begin with, you should not ban players for talking about politics.

Also, it is kind of weird to be brutally strict about things that are said on a gaming server chat. Some kids who say racial slurs are most likely much nicer in person. They just think it is cool to say this kind of stuff on the internet.

I am not advocating that it is okay to say so. But at least give them a second chance. Give them an opportunity to repent.

I am starting to believe that you as a community started with a good thing, and that is not allowing racist talk on the servers. But, then, you went overboard with it. You just do not know when to stop. You are top brutal with punishment, and you do not give second chances. And you can not even tell the difference between an identity word that is sometimes used as a slur and an outright slur.

Thank you.
 
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The word is used in bad context at least 90% of the time. If you used it in a decent context we would lift the ban. We don’t treat it the same as the n-word. N-word, no matter the context we ban. When it comes to jew, we ban first and ask questions later. If we were to remove the word from the filter it was just be letting the bigots run rampant on our servers. Also don’t bring a YouTube video where to guys are talking to each other in a philosophical manner and compare it to the gaming community…
 
You are looking way too far into this.

Bottom line:
We know it is an identity. We know it is not normally used as a slur. Which is why when someone appeals we look at the context unto which it is used and typically lift it from there. The problem is, is that too many people use the word as a slur. Too many. Which is why it is on our slur filter and won't be removed. Too many people are abusive and ruin the experience for everyone.

Racism and politics have no place in gaming especially in our servers. We simply don't want it here. We have always promoted a clean and BS free place to play. We all play to escape the outside world. Not bring it in. So it needs to stay out. Our house, our rules.
 
How does TBGclan define 'non malicious way'? This could be a really bit gray area.
 
I am honestly surprised we are still having this conversation.

Know your enviroment dude. Server side is the internet, and the internet is full of childish idiotic stupid people who will abuse the langauge filter or use nuance (or lack there of) to ruin a gaming experience for other people.

unless our friends at battlfield release an Israeli faction for a future battlefield game, what in game conditions could possibly exisit where you need to have a disscussion that mentioned any context of jews, or jewish people????

Unless you're having a BF temple night, or a bar mitzvah online, you wont.

if you're having a meaningful discussion in chat box, you probably arn't playing battlefield. are you allowed to have that discussion? sure, but it's honestly not the place for it, and that's why we have rules.

If someone trips the filter and appeals, we lift the ban. There isn't any more to talk about. .
 
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