Gunship and One Sided Commander

[SunshineTheGoat]

Unless you are out in the open, the enemy only has an "idea'" of where you are at. just because you are spotted on the mini-map, doesn't mean you have a triangle over your head.
Being HVT sucks, yes, because it shows everyone where you are at and you can not hide...but it makes it fun and gives me an adrenaline rush to try and defend myself for extra points

I took some time to play a round of commander on golmud to get these screenshots to show that the UAV isn't that powerful distance wise.

As you can see in the shots, you barely can cover 50% of A/B with the UAV. If your squad just stays on the outside of somebody trying to cover both, you will not be found.

As for F, you can see where you need to be to flank. Then, once it disappears, cap it as the commander might need to UAV something else!

UAV isn't over powered...

For maps such as Golmud, UAV in tandem with ac-130's thermal scope and 4 passenger spotting capabilities, like I mentioned before, the gunship is effectively more powerful than the UAV in that the passengers can easily spot everyone in the flight path through their highly magnified thermal vision scope, and unlike the UAV, gunship spotting goes into the real time 3d spotter. Gunship is up all match constantly, remember it is the only vehicle in the game that doesn't respect a server's respawn delay timer % (Sept-Oct patch will fix that however).

You both make good points, I do think however that you need to consider how it is unbalanced when combined with exposed terrain elements on most maps (which happen to be the same control points that you need to procure the gunship asset to begin with) and UAV radius on smaller-medium maps, not just large ones, and finally with the all important issue of the ac-130 ignoring a server's respawn timer - these things make it exponentially more unbalanced when looked at through the whole picture rather than one or two isolated elements, especially on an all maps server where the variation is immense.

 

[SunshineTheGoat]

I enjoy the fact that controlling one point would enable cruise missile or gunship giving your team the advantage. OR defending those points against the enemy. With or without a commander you still need to control more points to gain the upper hand. Therefore a strategy is needed. Half the time i can't do jack shit in a pug with a commander or not, but do i have fun in the all maps server (i think yes).

I remember pairing up with tactical russian on all maps server,(he is a AA whore btw) had a blast with him even with gunship or cruise missiles coming at us. I had to put my two cents in even though i have a few more cents.

Remember too that even when commander is disabled, certain points still maintain a high tactical value in terms of spawning in certain armor assets like heavy tanks or mobile anti air, or simply having high strategic value in terms of their geographic location on the map, such as the naval strike high cliff control points that give you vision over the entire map for engineers and recon to engage enemy vehicles and provide superior spotting capabilities, or Guilian's center map point holding high strategic value in that it's an easy to defend central location on the map providing quick access to capture all other points.

There is so much strategic variation in all the map's control points that gets bogged down into simplicity when commanders are present, or everyone is fighting for a singular point to control a gunship asset.

Aye mate let's hear the few more cents!

 

[Snakebabies]

Commanding, and lack of CO assets sucks when compared to the Commander role in previous titles. I also remember when playing BF2, when hte other team had a commander and it started being "unbalanced"...a little c4 would even the game up, or someone would man the fuck up and take command to even the sides........

 

[Synyster182]

I actually find CO mode and the assets to be better in BF4 than BF2. (I never got to play 2142 so no idea if CO was even in it.) It seems like the commander role is more dynamic now. Being able to interrupt the opposing commander. Interrupting cruise missiles. Used a Gunship to take down the left over gunship from the enemy team the other day right after a squad took their base just after they spawned the gun ship. That was fun. Using the commander gunship strikes to take out the other gun ship and help my team. I don't remember having moments like that with commander in BF2. As a commander player in BF4 I actually feel like I accomplish more than just telling a squad to go here and and there and hoping they actually do it. Along with Vehicle and Infantry scans. Every player has their play style. I do however agree at what Snakebabies may be hinting at up there. For when no remote commander is available the Command trailer would be great. Can't C4 it since its in a spawn... doesn't mean a Cruise Missile or Gunship can't shoot at it. Just saying. It would make to where games without a remote commander; the players in game could use the command trailer. Catch 22: other commander has no idea if other commander is a player on the server or remote. To make people think before they waste a CM strike on the command trailer. If a gunner in the gunship wants to waste shots on the command trailer... so be it.

 

[Snakebabies]

There was nothing more interrupting as a commander than having a squad of 3 (medic/spec-ops/support[or 2specops]) chilling by your assets and screaming at your team to get rid of them if they wanted assistance. But in BF4..the assets are at the flags now. Promoting teamwork in a sense. Now without a commander, we can just faceroll to victory with very little to no teamwork at all.

 

[SunshineTheGoat]

There was nothing more interrupting as a commander than having a squad of 3 (medic/spec-ops/support[or 2specops]) chilling by your assets and screaming at your team to get rid of them if they wanted assistance. But in BF4..the assets are at the flags now. Promoting teamwork in a sense. Now without a commander, we can just faceroll to victory with very little to no teamwork at all.

Snake, this Goat respectfully disagrees 110% with what you said about:

"Now without a commander, we can just faceroll to victory with very little to no teamwork at all."

So you would be saying that Battlefield 3, which had no commander, required very little to no teamwork at all, and that simply wouldn't be true mate, aye?!

I would re-state what I said previously as it is the ideal refutation to what you said:

Remember too that even when commander is disabled, certain points still maintain a high tactical value in terms of spawning in certain armor assets like heavy tanks or mobile anti air, or simply having high strategic value in terms of their geographic location on the map, such as the naval strike high cliff control points that give you vision over the entire map for engineers and recon to engage enemy vehicles and provide superior spotting capabilities, or Guilian's center map point holding high strategic value in that it's an easy to defend central location on the map providing quick access to capture all other points.

There is so much strategic variation in all the map's control points that gets bogged down into simplicity when commanders are present, or everyone is fighting for a singular point to control a gunship asset.

 

[Snakebabies]

this game is simple....(mode anyways)...kill more people and cap more flags=Win...kill less people and cap less flags=lose

 

[SunshineTheGoat]

this game is simple....(mode anyways)...kill more people and cap more flags=Win...kill less people and cap less flags=lose

The Snake is trolling the Goat now! Ahah!

Channel the inner nerd man! There is so much depth to the game, and this depth comes to life when you have those awesome matches that end with a 20 ticket difference.

 

[Snakebabies]

even wonka says it's simple!

 

[SunshineTheGoat]

 

[Snakebabies]

The Snake is trolling the Goat now! Ahah!

not yet ready for it?: go play on hardcore, stop whining
done

 

[SunshineTheGoat]

not yet ready for it?: go play on hardcore, stop whining
done

I can't remember the last time I gamed on any other server except TBG's all map conquest. You guys are my BF4 home.

Also, hardcore has commander enabled mode too, you silly Snake, so all the flaws of commander mechanics are found over there as well

And remember when you said this,

I was just saying the only difference between commanding then and now....is Commander assets, or lack there of. A lot of the bigger maps are unaffected by UAV...think Golmud is the exception to A/B flags.

I will play there either way, whether we have CO on/off...I like to debate
That server has been like top 15 since release, with CO on the whole time. Why now is this just being brought up?

You said you liked to debate aye mate, so I brought my nerd-game and debated, lol! I think my whining has been backed up by solid game play mechanics discussion, so at least its not merit-less whining, haha.

Oh, and on a separate note, on Pure's all map conquest server, they disabled commander as well recently because their community was voicing pretty much the same thing I've been talking about over here.

If you guys are interested in what happened there:

Hi all,

Thanks for all the feedback! We discussed this in the town hall this past weekend as well.

"Default settings" was a big part of the vision for PURE at launch, and I still think it's a pretty good guideline for a few reasons: designers generally get more right than wrong, it's easy for people to understand what PURE servers offer, and it's an objective guideline that lets us focus on the social aspect of our offering rather than deciding how to tweak our server settings.

But it's not an absolute rule, and sometimes exceptions make sense. In BF3, for example, we didn't use default ticket counts. They scaled based on server population, primarily so that low-population Rush didn't have massive ticket counts that imbalanced the game. In BF4, we've extended the timers for Carrier Assault and Chainlink, which have such unreasonably short defaults that the game modes are crippled.

I think Commander Mode is problematic. The biggest issue is that it's common for one team to have a commander while the other does not. The power of commander perks (especially UAVs) gives one team a substantial advantage, while adding relatively little to (and arguably detracting from) the gameplay experience for most players. Team balance is a hugely important factor in providing a satisfying gameplay experience, and I think one-team commanders hurt PURE much more than they help it. Unfortunately, there's no way for us to enforce "2 commanders only" -- BF4 doesn't give plugins a way to do this.

For these reasons, and because of the overwhelming community sentiment (judged by comment votes in this thread, and the town hall on Saturday), I'm going to make the call to remove BF4 commander mode from PURE servers.

I think we will continue to: * Keep defaults as our standard policy (vehicle spawn timers, etc.) * Avoid implementing arbitrary rules like "no shotguns" or "no attacking uncaps"

Regarding scenarios like Hardcore mode, or the upcoming Classic mode -- these are more akin to different game types, so there's no reason in principle that PURE wouldn't consider these servers. (No plans currently in the works, though.)

 

[SunshineTheGoat]

Well spirited debates, aye mates!

 

[QuantumRanger]

I can't remember the last time I gamed on any other server except TBG's all map conquest. You guys are my BF4 home.

Also, hardcore has commander enabled mode too, you silly Snake, so all the flaws of commander mechanics are found over there as well

There is no mini-map in Hardcore mode, so, you don't get spotted.

 

[SunshineTheGoat]

There is no mini-map in Hardcore mode, so, you don't get spotted.

Don't forget the AC130, the hellfire it rains down, the paratroopers it spawns in, and the server's vehicle respawn delay timer setting that it ignores; resulting in the "gunship spam" and instant gunship re spawns.

 

[Snakebabies]

Don't forget AC130, the hellfire it rains down, the paratroops it spawns in, and the server setting vehicle respawn delay timer it ignores, resulting in "gunship spam" and instant gunship respawns.

hardcore-no 3d spotting...no mini map..hence: NOT being spotted.

As far as what I have been saying, no commander assets= fail commanding. I am not disputing commanding sucks in BF4, I personally dont care about 3d spotting or mini-map spotting. 50% chance you die in any 1v1 engagement!

 

[SunshineTheGoat]

hardcore-no 3d spotting...no mini map..hence: NOT being spotted.

As far as what I have been saying, no commander assets= fail commanding. I am not disputing commanding sucks in BF4, I personally dont care about 3d spotting or mini-map spotting. 50% chance you die in any 1v1 engagement!

Although spotting/minimap reveal is only one element of the discussion on flawed commander mechanics, aye?

 

[Snakebabies]

flawed CO mechanics is gunship not meeting server vehicle respawn timer is your discussion..........not necesserily broken, but enough whining has DICE/EA fixing it.



TBG All Maps has been one of the highest ranked servers in the world with commander enabled the whole time..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................is my discussion.

 

[SunshineTheGoat]

flawed CO mechanics is gunship not meeting server vehicle respawn timer is your discussion..........not necesserily broken, but enough whining has DICE/EA fixing it.



TBG All Maps has been one of the highest ranked servers in the world with commander enabled the whole time..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................is my discussion.

Snake!

Nearly every day, at least a couple times a day, I ask server regulars how they like the change Fast has made, the majority enjoys it. Although those who joined the discussion on this forum, and even those I speak with in game are of course only a small sample of the server's player base.

Just watch how in the coming weeks this change will bring more people to the server, I'd wager the server's rank will increase, and like I've said before, it's already a rare gem of a server with a great community, matches, game-play, admins, and now with commander mode disabled to boot - people will love it even more!

Of course Fast will be keeping track of the traffic, so let's allow the numbers to be the judge of the yays and nays (summer break just ended and school year is starting up again so that has to be taken into account as well probably).

 

[Snakebabies]

The Snake is trolling the Goat now! Ahah!

How can you get higher than #1..numerous times since BF4 releases has TBG All Maps been #1 in the rankings